Sat
Jan 3 2009
10:05 am
Bottom Line on All this Testing
By: WhitesCreek

Testing is performed daily on treated water flowing into lines from the Kingston treatment plant. It's good so far, and frankly there's no reason to think it will be impacted by the ash spill. Kingston's water is probably as safe as it ever has been, what with everybody watching and all..

Not only does the treated water meet standards for metals, but so does the water flowing INTO the intakes even before it is treated.

...results from both Kingston and Rockwood collected on Dec. 31 also indicate that all treated drinking water results are well within both primary and secondary drinking water standards. All untreated water collected also met the drinking water standards for metals prior to treatment.

(link...)

Update with Kingston and Rockwood Test results attached

AttachmentSize
kingston_rockwood_results_12_31_2008.pdf171.47 KB

Absolutely on the money!

Submitted by RoaneBooster on January 3, 2009 - 11:16am.

This message has been being put out, but many of the media sort of "refused" to hear it. They were busy concentrating on distractions and not getting out the results that TVA/EPA/TDEC and their other labs have ben putting out for several days. Thank you for making a good headline out of this, sir.

RB

And Just What Are The Standards?

Submitted by Crappieman on January 3, 2009 - 12:01pm.

Are these the same government decreed standards that have paved the way for america's incresase in cancer, autism, MS, and various other neurological disorders. Could it be possible that these so-called standards are killing us? Granted, there are alot of lazy fat americans responsible for their own demise. However, this doesn't account for the extraordinary rise in birth defects, autism, MS, cancer, etc. It is clear to me that what we are consuming, breathing, and drinking is killing us and all of which is within government standards.

Look guys this situation is much more serious than a simple argument over who's lab tests are correct...or whether the level of arsenic in the water is 5x or 300x the allowable limits. The Emory River ecosystem has changed for only God knows how long. The Troy Beets of the world and his flunkies can showboat about the drinking water, but I assure you guys there will be a price to pay for this. You and I won't pay for it, but your grandchildren just might.

So go ahead and circle the wagons around TVA RB. Your grandchildren just may hold you accountable for it some day.

I agree with essentially

Submitted by WhitesCreek on January 3, 2009 - 12:30pm.

I agree with essentially what you say, C-man. And actually, I don't see any contradiction in any of these test reports. They all show essentially the same thing. The soup is really nasty stuff, and the levels of nastiness drops off the further away from it you get. Doesn't stop it from being nasty, and we need to know exactly what the long term implications are for people, fish, and everything.

Frankly, the recovery plan up til now for having healthy edible fish in Watts Bar has been something like, "Give it 10,000 years and it'll be fine."

Not going to work this time.

Downstream testing (Rockwood and points south)?

Submitted by onetahiti on January 3, 2009 - 3:14pm.

Once again: has anyone seen detailed test results of Rockwood water and of river water south of Rockwood?

-- OneTahiti

TDEC is supposed to be

Submitted by WhitesCreek on January 3, 2009 - 3:28pm.

TDEC is supposed to be posting the results at their web site but I have not found them. There is so much stuff there it's difficult to navigate. You might try your awesome google abilities One-T and see if you can get them. Please post them here if you do.

Here...Check this out

Submitted by WhitesCreek on January 3, 2009 - 3:32pm.

(link...)

Encouraging results!

Submitted by randmart on January 3, 2009 - 4:58pm.

Drink up Troy!

Thanks, WC!

Submitted by onetahiti on January 3, 2009 - 9:57pm.

I hope they keep publishing frequent test results. :)

-- OneTahiti

Hey I got a letter from Tom

Submitted by grasshopper on January 3, 2009 - 3:43pm.

Tom from TVA sent me a nice letter. It's a little more personal when you get a letter in the mail, even if everyone in the county got the same letter. I think it's a positive step.

I got one too

Submitted by WhitesCreek on January 3, 2009 - 3:50pm.

I think this is Tom Kilgore's way of saying, "I know where you live."

I got one too

Submitted by Crappieman on January 3, 2009 - 4:04pm.

That Tom's a great guy. I feel better now and should be able to sleep better at night.

My parents water tested.

Submitted by randyellis on January 4, 2009 - 10:44pm.

Well the EPA came to my parents home on 12/31/08 and tested their water and we are still awaiting the results. Then I happen to tune in to WVLT's web site and see a lady with the EPA being interviewed and she was giving the results of the water samples on Swan Pond Rd. which included 993 Swan Pond Rd my parents home. This is the first we have found out about the results. It is a shame that we had to learn of the results from a TV interview with the EPA. Great job on behalf of our joint operations center getting the news out to the residents. But they got their press confrence shots. I guess that is all that matters.

Randy Ellis
randyellis@gmail.com

I need to correct one misunderstanding you have, Randy

Submitted by RoaneBooster on January 4, 2009 - 11:10pm.

This JIC's purpose is not, or never was, to interact directly with the public. It was not set up nor designed to be a direct source of information to the individual members of the public, but rather as a point from which the media would get facts from the organizations participating in the Joint Information Center. It was and is to gather information from various sources for release to the news media. The information is vetted for accuracy by all involved agencies before it is released, then it is given to the media. Some press conferences have been held at the JIC, but when, if, and how the information obtained in recording those conferences actually gets to the public is in the hands of the media present that record the interviews. The JIC simply does not have the staff or time to be the entity that personally finds and contacts members of the public about such details. Indeed, in situations such as you mention, the JIC is not generally given information that says "EPA (or whoever) tested the water at 123 Anywhere Road and the results were..." The JIC sees general results. The JIC would know where a result came from if it was something like a municipal water treatment plant. But it wouldn't know addresses of specific private property owners.

I am very familiar with JICs, having worked in them before, and having had extensive training in the Incident Command System, which is the overall structure in which JICs operate. I have worked in JICs and/or helped grade the operation of JICs in exercises where I work in Knoxville.

That your folks did not get results of testing at their property directly from those who tested it is not good. Don't misunderstand me as defending that. I'm not. It was the EPA's and/or TVA's job to do that, and they failed in that.

But it is not the purpose of this JIC to have direct informational contact with the general public. JICs are sometimes organized, when the incident allows, to be a place where the public comes to get information. But the JIC has never been, as far as I know, a place that was tasked with finding individuals and giving them information such as results. A JIC, for one thing, is not qualified to talk about such results as would be a representative of the agency who did testing. The JIC on an incident of this magnitude, with as huge a load of dealing with media as they must have, is not normally the means of initiating dirct contact with private individuals about such things as lab results.

I hope this helps.

RB

Well RB I pretty much agree

Submitted by randyellis on January 5, 2009 - 9:21pm.

Well RB I pretty much agree with you 99.9% of the time. JIC may not be there to give individual test results on water tests. But is our County Mayor there to have contact with the residents of the affected area? Is the county commissioners there to have contact with the residents? Yes they are they are elected by the people! And the you or anyone else can defend the Mayor and say he has been busy since 1am on Dec 22nd but he has failed to meet with or call or even call a majority of the residents effected by the spill! And there is no excuse for that and the same goes for the commissioners! I am calling on Mayor Farmer and the Commissioners of the Swan Pond area to call a meeting for the residents of Swan Pond Rd and Swan Pond Circle to inform the in a joint meeting with all the parties involved in this clean up from our County Commissioner to Tom Kilgore! I have talked to several residents on Swan Pond Rd and I have heard that all of them have different ideas and have been told different things that are going on. You have several different news stations reporting different things and you have United Mountain Defense telling people something else. Come on Farmer get these people together and let them ask questions and vent for God's sake.

Randy Ellis
randyellis@gmail.com

Well, thanks for not raking me over the coals, Randy...

Submitted by RoaneBooster on January 5, 2009 - 9:45pm.

... But you are still responding with anger. The post to which I responded mentioned tha JIC as if it were the entity responsible to make personal contact with folks to advise them of test results. I responded and explained how it was not. Now that I have explained that, and you seem to have accepted my explanation, all there is is more abiding anger. It seems like when one thing is taken away to be angry with, the reflex is to turn elsewhere and vent anger so as to be sure to remain angry with SOMEthing or SOMEbody.

I understand that your folks - and others - have been injured by what happened. There's no doubt about it. But basing every response or request or expression of need on anger is something you might want to reconsider. Note well that I am not saying to stop pursuing what you think your parents need by way of reparation. You are a professional, and have had to deal with a lot of folks whom you serve in your line of work. I know that you have experienced how hard it is to deal with or help those who only respond in anger. They're pissed off and by God they LIKE being pissed off so much that they won't behave in any other way. You've been there I'm sure with people you have tried to serve. And I know that you know operating on nothing but anger is not a way that issues generally get resolved.

At this point it seems pretty clear that there's nothing that the County Executive or much of anybody else could do that would provide you with satisfaction. You and your family have suffered something that has you very angry, and you're not ready to let go of that anger yet. Note that I am not saying your feelings are invalid. Nobody can say that. Feelings are what they are to whoever feels them. And it does no good to try to tell someone they should or should not have certain feelings, as feelings are always 100% subjective. But what can happen is that people who are experiencing feelings that interfere with progress can work on how they let their feelings control their actions.

Perhaps I've gone too far, but I would do it if I were sitting in a room with you as a friend. If I have gone too far, be angry with me too if it helps.

But here's the deal: Anybody in any of these positions you want to help you are just like me - and you - by having feet of clay. They didn't suddenly turn into ogres with this incident.

Wish I could comunicate with you better...

RB

Ok let me put this calm.

Submitted by randyellis on January 5, 2009 - 10:32pm.

Ok let me put this calm. All I am requesting and all I have been requesting since the spill is for our county government to sit down with the resident and talk to them and give them a avenue for information. I am not angry I am just fighting for what I thank is the right thing. And yes I did talk to Mike and I got a hint of anger from him. I was very polite with him and asked my questions respectfully with out anger. I am not angry or hateful or trying to bash anyone I am just calling it like I see it and expressing how Swan Pond has been treated. Like I said all i am asking for is the County Mayor and Commissioners to sit down with the residents of Swan Pond and give them a briefing and let the residents ask questions.. And the Mayor has not responded. So what is you suggestion. There is no better way to communicate I expressed to Mike that there has been no communation with the residents on the Swan Pond. My feelings or the feelings of the residents are not the issue it is the communation of our county goverment. I don't know how I can put it more simple?

Randy Ellis
randyellis@gmail.com

Wrong again, RB

Submitted by WhitesCreek on January 6, 2009 - 7:48am.

From their press release:

The Roane County Joint Information Center was established to provide as reliable data as available to the media and the residents of Roane County. All official Roane County information will be released through the Joint Information Center.

The JIC isn't quite getting their mission yet.

At least, WC...

Submitted by RoaneBooster on January 6, 2009 - 10:34am.

... I've been able to fulfill your greatest ambition in life... i.e. to be able to put up a headline here that says "Wrong again, RB."

However, I will add, WC, that the purpose of the JIC was NEVER set or envisioned to be to call and/or notify individual citizens of test results.

RB

So their mission statement

Submitted by WhitesCreek on January 6, 2009 - 10:39am.

So their mission statement is to provide info to residents but they are not, in fact supposed to provide info to residents? Come on. That's silly.

And anyway...Why not? Who's responsibility is it?

Who is paying the JIC bills?

You're parsing everything I say about the JIC

Submitted by RoaneBooster on January 6, 2009 - 11:23am.

... so you can spin it in the worst possible light, WC, and you are smart enough to know that. So am I.

You haven't been in the JIC and I have. In a visit down there I've talked to those people, and watched what they're doing. Anybody that has not been in there will not understand how hard they are working. I know what a kayak is and what a canoe is, and basically how it works as an outside observer, WC. I've even been in a canoe on the Clinch River. But would you tolerate me bitching you to death about the technical details of how to build one if I had never been inside Dagger?

You don't know what a madhouse it is just to contain the work they have to do. Call me a liar on this if you want to, and all it is is a he said-he said argument, which is not resolvable. But if you listen to me without parsing my words to spin it to make someone (the JIC) a villain, you might understand something. The JIC simply does not have the logistics to hunt down individuals to give them test results. The JIC typically does not know what results go with an individual anyway. WC, those people in the JIC are busting their humps to move information. And they are doing the best they can under the circumstances. The first press release about the establishment of the JIC said it was set up to serve the media. By serving the media the best it can, providing information, not scripts for the media, the information could/should flow to the people.

The simple fact is that the people who did the tests of Randy's relatives' water should have been the ones to tell them the results. I totally agree with Randy that it is a shame that they had to learn the results from a public media source first. The people who test water of individuals are the ones that should be held responsible for communicating the results to those individuals.

The JIC is not the villain. The JIC is doing its job under very adverse circumstances.

As to the JIC bills: The county took the financial obligation of opening the JIC, with the understanding that TVA would reimburse. The agencies that send representatives to the JIC are paying their salaries. The volunteers that work at the JIC from time to time, well, they're volunteers. The JIC is fed by TVA.

RB

Come on RB. Nobody has

Submitted by WhitesCreek on January 6, 2009 - 12:01pm.

Come on RB. Nobody has called the JIC a villain or anything else except for you.

It's a simple question: Who is supposed to inform Roane County Citizens? If not the group formed with the stated mission to do that, then who?

If the JIC is giving out the information to the media all they have to do is post it somewhere and advertise the fact that it's posted to the citizens of Roane County.

They should have a FAQ page up and an online Q & A page. Simple stuff that is easy to do and would keep everybody happy.

Watch it whitescreek don't

Submitted by randyellis on January 6, 2009 - 8:35am.

Watch it whitescreek don't seem angry towards your country government or try to hold the accountable. You will be labeled angry and not productive. Just joking :)

Randy Ellis
randyellis@gmail.com

I know, Randy, that you can joke...

Submitted by RoaneBooster on January 6, 2009 - 10:38am.

... and do joke... and I can appreciate that a bit when it's at my expense :-)

Seriously, though, I hope you understand I was speaking to you as I would a friend (since I consider you a friend) who I was sitting having a coffee/beer/coke with. Friends do that, even while disagreeing, and that's the way I intended my typing. Hope you didn't take it as anything else.

RB

RB

Submitted by randyellis on January 6, 2009 - 11:45am.

No hard feelings RB! I am just pointing out or trying to point out that our County Mayor in not communicating very effectively with the people most effected by this. So no hard feelings.

Randy Ellis
randyellis@gmail.com

I'm with ya, Randy...

Submitted by RoaneBooster on January 6, 2009 - 11:52am.

No hard feelings whatever. And I'm so sorry your family is having to undergo what they are, regardless. It's sad, and it's difficult. No doubt about it. As far as I'm concerned our relationship is undamaged. Take care! And if I can do anything to help, let me know.

RB

Randy You Need...

Submitted by Crappieman on January 6, 2009 - 12:31pm.

A GOOD LAWYER! Just as virtually everyone of US affected by this does. I appeal to you Randy don't wait for your local, state, or federal politicians to represent your best interests. RB is very well versed in the skill of reverse psychology. He is quick to assess the anger and hatred of others, yet he is the one who talks like a sailor on this site. Brockovich and her legal team will be at Morrison Hill Christian Church on Friday 9th @ 6:00pm. I'm not saying a class action suit will solve your problems or mine. However, it doesn't hurt to listen and educate yourself. It sounds to me like RB doesn't have a dog in the fight with respect to monetary losses as your family and I do.

WC made some statements a few days ago regarding the lobby issues relating to TVA and our politicians. Its a real problem and rearing its ugly head as we speak. It appears that the GOP politicos are carrying TVA's water. Furthermore, the Dems don't get a pass from me as they are standing on the sidelines with their fingers up their hindends as well. The moral of this story is you have to look out for yourself dude.

The aggressive cleanup ongoing at the Kingston waterfront is a smoke & mirrors operation for the purpose of appeasing public scrutiny. Today is the 6th and 15 days since the spill. I live approx 2-3 miles upstream and closer to the spill site. The 2 miles or so stretch of river that I span has seen no cleanup efforts. Not one vacuum boat...NADA If you all think the mess at the Kingston waterfront is bad you need to come down to my neck of the woods. We have as much sludge on the water and shoreline as we did 15 days ago. The only action I have seen is HEPACO contractors riding around checking their booms that have been stretched out on the water. I have taken photos of this mess every day since the spill. There are coves where I live that are completely inundated with ash and thick as chicken & dumplins. To take a position that TVA is giving its best effort is laughable.

Crappieman...

Submitted by RoaneBooster on January 6, 2009 - 1:03pm.

... You may as well give up trying to convert Randy to feeling about me the way you do. He already KNOWS better, and he and I are, and plan on remaining, friends. He already knows I'm not just here to blindly be a cheerleader for anything and everything, and he knows I can think critically about government and other issues. And you know what? It doesn't matter what I have or do not have to lose financially regarding this or any other issue. I'm not sure who you think there is in Roane County who doesn't stand to lose something from this disaster, whether they have property in Swan Pond or not. Anyway...

Getting educated, as you suggest, is a perfectly fine thing for Randy and others affected by this incident to do. And one of the best pieces I've seen about it is what WC posted under the thread saying it wasn't Exxon Veldez, etc. Those people gave what is by and large the best advice I've seen to those directly injured by this.

Smoke and mirrors? Are the tons and tons of stuff hauled off the covered areas illusions? Smoke and mirrors? They can't get it all done at the flick of a switch, and you disagree with their priorities in where they are cleaning up. Let 'em wait on cleaning some other area of the mess up - come and clean my area up first. They didn't make YOU their first priority, so you're mad at 'em and wanna act like they're not doing anything. Truth is they're just not doing it the way YOU want it done. Tis sad indeed they can't get all the cleanup done at once. Guess that shortcoming is yet another sign of the corruption that is everywhere except where you are.

RB

So....

Submitted by WRK on January 6, 2009 - 6:22pm.

RB, how many dump trucks of solid coal waste have been removed from the Emory river?

Independent water testing by Appalachian State University has determined the waste contaminating the river contains elevated levels of arsenic, barium, cadmium, chromium, lead, mercury, nickel and thallium.

I guess the clearing the railroad was TVA's priority. Even though, unlike the river- the railroad isn't a source of drinking water for thousands of people.

Doesn't do away with the fact...

Submitted by RoaneBooster on January 6, 2009 - 7:35pm.

... that there is more than smoke and mirrors going on. Nor does whatever testing was done by App State negate that. Their results were apples to oranges by their own reports, as they reported on more than dissolved chemicals (they reported on turbid and suspended particulate matter as well).

FAR more than the railroad has been cleared. The river is being worked on daily.

Maybe you can wave your magic wand again and make all the bad stuff go away for TVA. But absent that, all of us are going to have to wait and watch while TVA keeps at it day after day.

RB

I wonder if the fish,

Submitted by WRK on January 6, 2009 - 10:13pm.

I wonder if the fish, amphibians, turtles, benthic macroinvertebrates and all the other aquatic life in the Emory river experience the heavy metal contamination as smoke and mirrors? You certainly have an anthropocentric view of the world, RB.

By the way, I asked a quantitative question. How many loads of solid coal waste have been removed from the Emory river? References to magic wands don't really answer the question. And while I give you bonus points for the attempt to evade the question with a tired old catch phrase, the fact remains that you didn't provide a numeric answer to the quantitive question.

And I would honestly like an answer to this very simple question.

WRK

Submitted by WhitesCreek on January 7, 2009 - 7:08am.

We share the goal of getting the Emory River and Watts Bar lake cleaned up. It's going to take time. It took 50 years to load the gun that shot all the ash into the lake and it's going to take time to get it out. In the mean time there has to be a coherent procedure and some measure of protections to the local people during that process. Frankly, after discussions with scientists and engineers, I am far less concerned about the stuff lying around in water than I am about it being strewn up and down every road leading away from the site.

The ash is not a virulent toxin but it can have long term health effects with prolonged exposure, particularly if inhaled. We all want to know where it is going as it's removed from the lake. The loads that have been removed so far are apparently going to a dry location at the TVA plant. I'll find out more and post it.

Ultimately, most of us would like to see it removed from our area and placed in a dry lined landfill away from water's edge. The road and railroad reconstruction will be crucial to that process, and yes, the plant has to be supplied with coal fuel until we make the transition to alternatives.

Now I'm sure you can find fault with all of this, but you know what? Instead of the hyperbole we've been getting, how about supporting us with reasonable ideas and making a contribution to common goals? Otherwise the people who have control of the situation are simply going to tune us out.

Man! I wish I'd said that!

Submitted by RoaneBooster on January 7, 2009 - 10:24am.

"Now I'm sure you can find fault with all of this, but you know what? Instead of the hyperbole we've been getting, how about supporting us with reasonable ideas and making a contribution to common goals? Otherwise the people who have control of the situation are simply going to tune us out."

Yep. You hit the nail on the head.

RB

County Meeting

Submitted by randyellis on January 7, 2009 - 10:20am.

Roane County Commission is having a public hearing Monday Jan. 12 at 5:30pm in the Criminal Court Room at the Roane County Court House with the TVA in attendance to answer questions. I encourage everyone to
attend.

Randy Ellis
randyellis@gmail.com

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