Mon
Jan 5 2009
08:45 pm

Best advice yet comes form an Exxon disaster survivor:

...let's consider ways to get out of this mess. Those promises to make you whole? Relocate your homes and whatnot? Get them in writing in legally-binding agreements. In fact, put in writing exactly what it will take to make you whole as families and as a community. Use your list as a benchmark so when the media return in one-five-ten and twenty years for "anniversaries," you will have a way to gauge recovery.

Working together on something for the greater good will hasten healing. So pick a focus, whether it's dealing with the mental health and social trauma, environmental trauma, or economic trauma. Form a core working group and figure out what you need to do to short-circuit the harm--or else you'll be wallowing in it for years. Such Peer Listening Circles are tools that shift people from victim mode to survivor mode--a vital change that can literally save lives--and rebuild a sense of community. Take it from a sibling injured community: this works.

And heed our warning--lawsuits do not work to recover losses! The legal system is currently broken. Better to invest your time in mediation. Calculate your short- and long-term economic harm and the harm to quality of life. Balance these against spending the next twenty years in litigation. Make demands and make concessions, but be sure to do both as a community. Insist on a process where the people represent themselves and the lawyers take a back seat. Process is important to healing.

If I had the power, I would eliminate punitive damages in any TVA settlement. Unless there is some way to punish TVA Directors for not including Environmental standards, etc., in the bonus calculations for the TVA CEO's pay. Tom Kilgore is a hired hand. I want to hear from the Directors.

(link...)

Trust Issues

And then people wonder why some Roane citizens don't trust the information being put out there.

There are too many examples in our history just like the Exxon spill as described in this article, that cause some of us to have a few trust issues.

Sure we know there's independent agencies doing testing, but the government's record on disasters isn't all that great. I know I'm not the only one thinking "Sure, that's what they tell us now, but what about five or ten years from now?"

I go back to something

I go back to something earlier. We will only be able to trust our agencies when we can oversee them from the outside and "catch them telling the truth". That's why I repeatedly call for TVA to accept cooperative oversight from UMD, Tennessee Clean Water Network and other qualified groups.

Pretty Srong Statement...

From someone who has lived it and on a much greater scale. I just don't see how our community can rally to itself and fight this problem, much less represent ourselves in mediation against a federal behemoth like TVA. We are too severed. The shame is that TVA would and will drag this through the court systems for 20 years all the while saying they will make us whole and represent our best interests. WC I disagree with your stance on punitive damages. Heavy punitive damages to the tune of hundreds of millions may be the force that requires an org like TVA to make better decisions in the future regarding our health/safety and environment. If we give them a pass we are setting the stage for additional disasters. Additionally, there should be criminal charges brought against the responsible parties.

If they've violated criminal laws...

.. Pray tell us: what are the CRIMINAL statutes they have violated?

RB

There is nobody to punish with punative damages

TVA belongs to you and me. We're the "stockholders" that would normally be punished. Setting up for punative damages would be setting up for lawsuit roulette. The wheel would go round and round and nobody has a clue where it would end up decades from now.

There are community groups in the process of being formed that I think we ought to participate in. Here's the offer for them to post info at RoaneViews. I'd be glad to work with them to get something up and the site is free for everybody (except me).

That Would Be...

Dumping 5.4 Million cubic yards of toxic waste into the river system. It would be criminal if you or I did it and its criminal when TVA does it. TVA made a conscious and calculated decision not to invest the engineering and operational monies necessary to prevent this disaster. TVA ingnored prior engineering reports regarding this holding pond and its dike structure. Cmon RB we put a man on the moon 40 years ago using a tin foil spaceship. Only a fool would believe that engineering specs on this holding pond with its extraordinary volume would not indicate catastrophic failure. Its been leaking for decades. Not all coal fired power plants dispose of their ash in holding ponds. Once upon a time as a young man I worked for a company (Chemical Waste Management)that vacuumed out ash from holding tanks of power plants which were destined for proper disposal. That was over 25 years ago and closer to the time of moon technology. TVA has criminally contaminated our community both environmentally and economically.

Well we kinda agree...

If you or I OR TVA broke a criminal statute, we shold be charged with it and held accountable.

I/you/we can't, however, make a criminal charge on dumping toxic waste when something is not legally classified as toxic waste. Should it be classified that way? Maybe. You obviously believe it should, as do many others.

But you or I calling something "criminal" doesn't make it legally so.

Should they (TVA) be held accountable in every legal fashion for the spill? Sure. Should they provide remediation and reparation to those injured by it? Sure.

But to press criminal charges, someone has to have violated a criminal statute. Which criminal statutes have they violated?

RB

I don't have any specific statutes...

As I am not a legal guru. I don't know the legal statutes against running red lights but I know they are on the books. I'm pretty sure there are some legal statutes against dumping toxic waste into the river. I don't feel the need to quantify my thoughts with legal jargon. It is what it is!

I understand that, Crappieman...

... you don't have the citation of a statute... and I don't either. I agree that there are statutes that make it illegal to dump toxic waste into a river, even if neither one of us knows how to cite it.

But the point I was trying to make - and didn't do very well at - was that you can't charge someone with dumping toxic waste when what was dumped was not legally classified as toxic waste. And fly ash is not classified as toxic waste.

Whether it should be so classified or not is another discussion altogether. But right now it is not classified as toxic waste, hence nobody can be charged with the crime of duping toxic waste.

RB

Good Points RB...

And it appears as though you and I may possibly be communicating on decent levels. I'm afraid though that where we part ways is the reasonings behind the classifications. I am assuming your classifications are derived from the EPA when I infer that the EPA is in the business of protecting its own. Could it be possible that the EPA's clasifications are erronious and that presumably lead, mercury, barium, thalium, arsenic, etc should be classified as toxic to any species that walks, fly's, or swims the planet? Could it be that our federal government is not seriously in the business of protecting our health/safety and our environment? All questions that lead to the big ??? Why is this stuff not classified as toxic. Call me a pessimist but I would bet that somewhere down the line a government body of some type made these critical decisions in anticipation of this very type of disaster.

You know RB. I am angry. I look out across the lake and I wonder if my kids or grandchildren are safe in that water. How much more punishment can the Watts Bar Reservoir take? I know nature has a unique way of cleansing itself. But I'm afraid even mother nature can't overcome our destructive tendencies.

Sure, Crappieman, it COULD be...

EPA's classifications could be full of it. Or not. I don't have the scientific facts to say one way or the other myself. As I said in my earlier post, whether or not the fly ash should be classified as toxic waste is a different topic/argument.

And, Crappieman, I won't put you down for being angry any more than I would put Randy down for it. You feel what you feel, and you see what you see on that lake. You have friends and family you want to be safe. That's a natural desire. And you don't want people needlessly endangering them. Am I doin' OK so far?

A difference between you and me is that I don't attribute every decision of the feds or the government that disagrees with my own feelings or opinions to be necessarily caused by evil motives or corruption. The BEST people in government can make honest mistakes, since they still are fallible people. Are there corript people in government? You betcha! But are people to be classified as corrupt just because they work for the government? Nope.

But anyway - to the classifications: I have no problem whatever with a scientific investigation as to whether or not this stuff should be classified as toxic waste. Let the chips fall where they may. I say science should show us the way in that dispute, not feelings, not opinions. And GOOD science is always dynamic: the best of what we knew a year ago - or 5 years or a decade ago - may not be the best of what we can know now.

RB

"Could it be possible that

"Could it be possible that the EPA's clasifications are erronious and that presumably lead, mercury, barium, thalium, arsenic, etc should be classified as toxic to any species that walks, fly's, or swims the planet?"

Of course it is possible but wouldn't the laws that TVA could possibly be charged with violating be based on the legal classifications?..If so, then how can they be charged with anything?

All of these things are natural in some quantity

The dirt your kids play in has most of these things in it. All burning coal does is concentrate it so we have to be careful about where we put the residue.

We're weren't careful about where we put the residue. Now we have to go get it from where it escaped to and put it someplace careful. It's basically in teeny little rocks right now. As long as the water flowing over it is alkaline, it will stay in the little rocks. Note: Your stomach is definitely acidic...Don't eat the stuff. Take showers if you get it on you. Soap is very alkaline.

We have a short term environmental problem and a long term pr problem.

2-3 years from now the problems with With our lake will be back to the problems we've had for decades. PCB's and mercury that make the fish unfit for consumption. Catch and release all you want, though.

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